To buy or not to buy a Forex system: digging deeper into the logic.

Return to Forex scams

I’m now sitting and thinking yet again about Forex systems that are out there for sale. Just saw another SCAM website the goal of which is to BLAME SCAMMERS (their colleagues, actually ;) for selling Forex trading systems that don’t perform as claimed!
In case you don’t know, scammers are skillful sales people. They will warn you about dangers and scam offers around, but themselves will try you to sell yet another scam product…

Huuhhh. A bit of philosophy will follow. So, if you don’t like it, you may leave the class.

The topic is: “TO BUY OR NOT TO BUY A FOREX SYSTEM: Digging deeper into the logic”.

Here is the logic as I see: Why would you sell a trading system that makes thousands or even millions in the Forex market?
No, really, why? May be my students know the answer?

Sellers of Forex trading systems will tell you various stories from the “love to help other traders” to some nonsense. The closest answer I’ve met and which can be believed in is that a Seller himself is a trader, and in his trading he has ups and downs. Thus he decides to share the system in order to cover for those periods where he is less profitable or even unprofitable. Alright. Do you accept it? Sounds fair. At least he acknowledges that he is not a wizard and can lose a trade or two.

Yes. It is a pretty fair answer. But we are not finished yet.
Think now: He sells you his system — you hope to make money… consistently… for a living… become a millionaire — you finish it… I’m asking you, where is the LOGIC?
A seller himself cannot make profits that would suit him, so he tries to sell his system to cover up for the losing months, and YOU, using the same system want to profit more???

A Holy Grail System will never be sold. It is a machine for making money, which doesn’t need a cover-up from other income sources!

After trying and failing with the best systems they have bought, many Forex traders become more aware of new Forex products that come into the market almost every week now. But until there is a demand for such get-rich-quick scams the scammers’ business will boom and blossom.

** Forex Dark Lord **

52 Comments to this post

  1. That’s true.
    Consider yourself lucky if you manage to buy a system that’s been developed from scratch and traded live at least for a year.
    Majority of Forex systems out there are either duplicating already existing and available for free strategies or are turned into expert advisors - this is even worse. Anything can be coded into it, even a system you read about on a forum last week.
    Have your own brains, don’t buy Forex systems!

  2. hold up… all I can say is try my magic rainbow.. Only way to scalp forex! besides i need the ebook cash!

  3. Why not to sell a profitable idea in order to profit even more? It can be done almost robotically on the Internet. Once generated,your idea can be reproduced easily billions of times by any dull Copy-Paste machine - it is not manufacturing that requires material resources and work for (re)production. Selling systems maybe even easier and more profitable than trading. Some time ago I could not imagine that writing books like “Harry Potter” (which I’ll hardly ever want to read) could bring such a fortune to its author! If you want to be a billionaire, don’t trade - write books for teens. :) )

  4. I wouldn’t have believed it either had I not found an application that actually does a pretty good job of making successful Forex trades so I don’t have to sit in front of a pc all day… :)

  5. i just purchased the fabturbo and it’s exactly that.

  6. there are so many greedy people out there that want to sell stuffs just to get rich. so be careful buying stuffs. besides you are more intelligent than any stuff, so get education and trade the market for urself. the market is flexible and you as a person can change with it, but softwares and roberts, and …are rigid. they will not stand the test of time. when you study you will trade with confidence and rest.

  7. Being intelligent has no bearing on trading. People think too much and listen to the news. The market does the same things time after time and a good objective system will not try and rational what is happening. It sees the patterns and trades them based on rules. Even some of the more popular trading methods are not objective. You always here thing like it looks like, could be and stuff that is subjective. This one of many reasons folks fail and lose money trading any market.

  8. Good forex site! Congratulations. The truth about forex: learning never ends. If you want to do a click and leave, then return to your screen as millionaire, forget it! My experience in forex… just read my name. Regards to the autor; by the way, seems that a photoshoped picture of your face left the horse?

  9. i love this site. when someone talks of buying a good forex system.. that person will fail only if he tries to blindly follow the sysytem like one magical power. successful forex traders make it by professionally analyzing the market, not by buying any so-called powerful system. people that sell these stuffs, are traders like you and i. and they have thier bad times. they truely make thier money by selling those stuffs. i put to you that 90% of people who buy people sytems fail badly in the forex market.
    if you will buy anything, i advice you buy study material. learn why people succeed and others fail. study peoples system only for the purpose of learning how they analyzes the market. be a forex analyst, and not a people system follower. build your own system.
    now here lies the secret of FX success. read your charts. know you pivot points,know your overbought and oversold levels, understand ranging trends and breakout trends. know your fundamentals analysis, and use your indicators only as a confirmation. i tell you, you will be 80% successful like me.

  10. Brilliant comment, Thompson!

  11. amusing materials.. Clearly there are proponents on both sides.. I didn’t really hear good arguments on either side other than covering for losses by selling product. In school, there is the adage, “those that can’t, end up teaching”.. this can also be applied here. Those that can’t trade (successfully), sell “systems/robots”. But when you think about it regarding the secrecy - there really is no detriment to teaching another what your keys to success are. I mean, just because you are terribly successful at trading, doesn’t mean there is food off my table. Right? If there was a magic wand, & we all bought it and implemented it, would that mean some of us would make less than others because there are more “winners”?? I don’t think the market works that way..

  12. Great site. Just read through it all. Looking forward to the next article.

  13. There are tons of books on market psychology on why traders lose go read some. The main reason people lose is because they can’t follow a system or simply the system they use doesn’t work. People feel akward about being the minority. There are many books with advice on systems that work however, people start thinking they are smarter than the system listening to the news and waiting for reports. Do the forex robots they sell work I have no clue I do know the reason folks like TradeStation so much do to being able to set up rules/systems and let them go. Traders there are systems that work you just need to be diligent in reading books and sooner or later you will find systems that work for you. The good thing is you don’t have to waste a dime trading real money to test a system. And one last thing I want you to think about fact is most people lose so the majority are wrong. Looks like I am in the minority here so what is wrong with this picture. I will post one trade on this site for all to see from begining to end. Will it work I have no clue but, it will be strictly from my system. Folks like to talk but, I never see anyone post trades complete with stops, entry and exits. Since the comments are time stamped that will make for easy following as the trade progresses. I will be in this trade so you will have an idea of the pips made or lost. The system will give the market room to work and will incorporate all the information suggested by myself for a system used in another posted discussion. As long as it is ok with the moderator I will wait for the signal and post. To give you an idea the first target of this trade will be 389 pips unless the issue changes or corrects itself.

  14. Sure, you can post it here. A live example is a great way to encourage and inspire!

  15. OK I changed my mind on the small pip amount go for the big money on the daily chart. First symbol GBP/USD risk is 2120 pips per lot.(Yes that many pips remember the system is based on movement of the symbol) Next in order to maximize the potential gain you need to take multiple lots we will just use 3. The setup and signal to get in already occurred in late November and the entry was 1.5182.(Remember we are playing with a big boy SYSTEM it takes time and you don’t need to stand over it) The first target for this is 1.6240 which is well over 1000 pips you do the math. I will exit one lot at this target, trail with the second lot giving up half the pips each day based on the highest point I will move the stop up. Either it will be stopped out or it will reach the second target sitting at 1.7298 already at a profit so I could care less. Now the last one goes for the big money and will be sitting at the entry price waiting for the hail mary which is sitting at 1.9414. This last lot will not get a profit unless it reaches the last target in which it will be trailed at that point giving up 30% of the pips to keep going for the big move. Now that is the trade from beginning to end so now we just wait. Now anyone else with a plan from start to finish to post since we all seem to talk. Please don’t be shy I trade for a living and have been thinking about starting a site to sell signals for small traders($500 to $5000). And frankly if I have to put up with crap I should just keep to myself. The method above is totally objective and has an accuracy in the high 70%. As a disclaimer the forex example is meant as an example for small traders on what they should be looking for as they look for SYSTEMS that work. Don’t even think of taking this trade if you can not stand the risk.

  16. Next trade AUD/USD I’m in at .6545 all signals were given in futures market so I have no idea about the stop probably close to 400 pips but, that is just an estimate. I also have no idea about the profit target so I will use the futures market as a guide. So we will see how it goes. Multiple positions taken to keep it gong for large move just in case.

  17. I’m going long in the AUD/USD.

  18. USD/CAD short entry 1.2338 no stop in place
    GBP/JPY long entry 1.2306 no stop in place
    Multiple positions taken with both. And if you are watching the GBP/USD I’ll save you sometime wait until March/April that should be about when the fun starts.

  19. Now common guys I cannot be the only person willing to post trades especially working in multiple accounts. We all talk about making money in the markets however, there is a problem if you are doing what the herd is doing then you probably belong with the 90% that lose in this game. Most are currently waiting for a trend which is why what I do works. By the time a trend is formed the system I use is already profited on a lot or sometimes two. Risk/Reward looks weird but, if you system is accurate then risk can be alittle higher. Now if you want some good reading go find Behaviors of Prices on Wall Street. Its been out of print for years so it costs more than normal books but, I promise it will open your eyes to the world of trading. This book is a stock book however, the idea presented still applies to all markets.

  20. NZD/USD long entry at .5282 no stop
    More positions are held but, thats enough for demonstrations sake.

  21. GBP/JPY first target hit 125.67 one lot exited. Stop placed on second lot and will trail until stopped out or 128.95 hit. Last position is at signal entry point 122.39 this is the hail mary. My job as a trader is done the rest is trying to milk profit. Note how I didn’t say put a tight stop on it like average traders. I have a profit so I can care less. If you want to be in the 10% you will differ from other traders.

  22. GBP/JPY second stopped out at 125.02

  23. By now everyone sees what is going on with the market. You see some of the positions I am in prior to the moves. We have folks that seem to have disappeared and to my suprise no one is posting signals to prove their point. Everything you read about has been crushed with this demonstration. News folks, fundamental folks, trend folks and the ever famous know it all folks. I am still learning everyday and one thing I learn is that folks don’t learn. We believe what is put in front of our face and never have enough sense to look into it. Are you ready for the real world “The Maxtrix” definitely has you. Now anyone else want to tell me systems don’t work.

  24. GBP/JPY update up over 800 pips on the last lot. Remember that this is already a profitable trade with over 450 pips banked. I’m playing with the houses money so you let it ride. The vast majority of the money made is from this last one. Honestly about 80-90% of what I make comes from this last one. And with risking 5% of my account each time it turns small accounts to a descent size fairly quick. Just for the hell of it I’m going to buy one of those robots and test it to see what happens. There has to be one that works.

  25. GBY/JPY up close to over 1100 pips more than most will see in a lifetime. All these moves and still no one posting trades. Nevermind last target hit trailing stop put in at 132.29 yes that much room over 500 pips to move. And still a tons of moves setup waiting to happen.

  26. GBP/JPY trade done on my intraday time frame. Pips collected you figure it out. This same trade is just getting started on my daily chart. Now your newbies don’t let folks tell you stuff without looking into it yourself. When trading the news is garbage, fundamentals can be garbage, most things and indicators are garbage. If you can’t see this stuff you need to get out of the market and start spending your money on learning. To make it simple give your money to me I know what to do with it. Funny thing is I have run a few minor very candid ads(no fundamental folks, no technical folks, news folks and know it all folks) offering profitable signals and yes I did put that in the ads. The only response I got was about someone saying they liked their broker and got signals from them. The broker was not registered with NFA(red flag). In closing don’t miss the boat some big stuff is about to happen. Peace back to reading only mode.

  27. tradeforex4money - how you doing? reading your posts, how many pips are you up?

    i like your style here. I’d happy to expose my trades GBP/AUD currentlyin the 2.18. I have news it may fall to 2.12 in the coming weeks. that would be 400 pips. 30×10000 lots - $12k AUD

    Could work for 3 months in a cafe and get the same amount

  28. Honestly I don’t normally count pips too many positions in markets to be counting. But everything posted was at a profit except for the big GBP/USD on the daily. And I’m still fairly new to forex I started with futures and got sick of changing contract months to play. Sometime before September when I had to switch into the December contracts for currencies was when I turned to forex. GBP/AUD is a pair I don’t normally play it popped up on my daily criteria update with bearish divergence issues in November though. If I did play the first two positions would have profited and hail mary would still be alive entry on the close on 2/5 with intraday. It’s weird with some of these cause signals that meet what I look for show in the futures only. Normally I don’t post trades however, folks were saying systems don’t work. Everything I do is objective and news is never a factor for me. As an ordinary person you can put out a press release imagine what you can do with enough money and influence.

  29. very good webblog

  30. Newbies here is what is possible in forex. This is a demo trading account I opened on the 11th of this month. All of the signals are on small intraday charts. I have been up late nights to show you guys what is possible. I have screwed up(my fault) and missed alot of signals due to parental duties. And frankly sleep is a good thing. Notice one thing there are not a ton of trades. What you see is me scaling out of positions to bank profits?

    Report 22/06/09


  32. As of 3/10/09 account is up 304.04% with an outstanding position still open and not accounted for.
    Starting balance $5000 (2/11/09) with current balance at $20,201.80
    For the sake of time my demonstration is over so over 300% in one month with lots of signals missed. Gotta take care of my parental responsibilities too. Most of these were taken using 15 minute charts. Final trade log is attached and still one open position at a profit not showing. Find or make a system that works for you with everything planned before you take the trade. Notice folks on the otherside have all disappeared.


  33. oilyblues-good call with GBP/AUD just noticed it winding down my week.

  34. tradeforex4money how often does your system work this good?
    is it consistent on a yearly basis? would being profiicient at trading forex be very usefull to someone who wanted to be a stock broker?

  35. young-the system works in all time frames with all markets. The system works well its just a matter of following rules which is a problem for most people including me sometimes. It works with stocks also which is why I don’t follow news. Price, patterns and indicators will normally precede news. If you play stocks well in your own account folks will come knocking at your door without contacting anyone. The key really is to find what works for you. What I use plays against most methods folks use. The simple fact is that the same patterns keep coming up again and again. Find them, then make them valid with indicators and give them specific rules so you don’t have to think to much. There are some people out there that can trade without indicators just because patterns repeat. With the EUR/USD I can play like that monthly because I know exactly what to look for on small intraday charts. If you are a stock person here is something that should help.

    There are secrets of the stock market. For one it follows a pattern most years and below are the average gains month by month:

    S&P 500 (1950-2007)

    Jan. 36 up years; 22 down years; avg. return = 1.25%
    Feb. 32 up years; 26 down years; avg. return = -0.15%
    Mar. 37 up years; 21 down years; avg. return = 0.87%
    Apr. 38 up years; 20 down years; avg. return = 1.19%
    May 33 up years; 25 down years; avg. return = 0.24%
    Jun. 31 up years; 27 down years; avg. return = 0.14%
    Jul. 31 up years; 27 down years; avg. return = 0.67%
    Aug. 33 up years; 25 down years; avg. return = -0.12
    Sep. 25 up years; 33 down years; avg. return = -0.70%
    Oct. 36 up years; 22 down years; avg. return = 0.80%
    Nov. 39 up years; 19 down years; avg. return = 1.49%
    Dec. 43 up years; 15 down years; avg. return = 1.56%

    April is historically a bull month so if we are going to start a serious bull rally it will start this month. On the daily charts I have gotten a few signals awhile back but, the weekly chart still has not given a signal yet very close though.

    Learn about history, cycles(economic and business), wars, typical pre-holiday reactions, etc… What you will find is the same stuff keeps happening. I put a link to a movie on this site somewhere and literally its the same stuff going on right now just different time. The best books might be still in the library however, they take them out of print. I can honestly say I have read hundreds of books on this stuff. Learn trading psychology of average traders and use it to your favor.

  36. what is the secrect in forex plc reveil 5 top secret in forex to me

  37. Jan. 18th a trade was posted and the target was hit today for the GBP/USD. It didn’t happen exactly when I thought but, it happened.

  38. The top secret in Forex is: there is no easy money, otherwise everyone would be doing nothing but trading Forex and sip martini on the private island. One way or another each trader worked his way up to the level where he can understand the rules of the currency market and use this knowledge to his advantage.
    The remaining 4 are:
    1. Know differences between brokers and the way their houses work.
    2. Know precisely how your money move inside the account: leverages, margins, swaps, net balance etc.
    3. Know the market you trade in.
    4. Have a proven tested plan (trading system) and execute it with a discipline.

  39. Hello
    i am very much new into forex and i dont understand what do you guys mean by signals and future.
    i am trading forex for couple of days and have lost 50$ till now
    can anyone of you help me to understand and start with forex trading..

  40. As sad as it may sound, you’ve got to help yourself. Read everything you can find about trading, go to free Forex educational portals, forums, visit with lots of free Forex lessons - try to understand the environment of forex trading; after that you’ll be very comfortable in browsing through tons of information about Forex trading and confident in selecting the best approach to beginning your trading practice.

  41. Newbie - Frankly I put enough information to keep you busy for years reading. The reason folks lose is because they don’t have their own reasoning and everyone likes to follow the herd. And it’s the same reason every chart I’m staring at right now is giving me a picture no one is talking about. When everything starts to happen you will know exactly what I am talking about. The charts and indicators could be wrong but, they never lie.

    Signal is a term I use to state it’s time for the trade. And futures is a term used for another market basically the same currencies as forex just less leverage with better signals for me at least. Another term you may here is commodities like lean hogs, live cattle, feeder cattle, soybeans, wheat, etc. Both are know as futures though because you are suppose to be buying contracts for a future date like all the currencies are currently in the September contracts. So when September comes along either you need to pony up the money to accept delivery or get out of the contract and get into the December contract.

    As far as secrets yes there are tons of them however, again people don’t like to read. The biggest one is the that the big boys in this game don’t trade like most folks do. Figure that out and you will start to understand this game a little better. Some refer to it as a business I will always say game because it is meant to seperate most folks from their money.

  42. Almighty Darkness Incarnate,

    I just wanted to say that your background is killer, so I had to use it as my desktop on my computers! Is that you on the horse?! I also wanted to ask, in a dark lord sense, are you more like a voldemort type dark lord, or a darth vader type dark lord? All kidding aside….I’m considering trying the megadroid autotrader. Everything I’ve read about it looks pretty positive. Have you read anything about the megadroid? It’s 97 bucks, and common sense tells me, if it is right 95% of the time like they claim it is, it would be a helluva lot more?! What do you think or lord of darkness?

  43. Haha… Thank you. Glad you liked the live shot of my dark Kingdom…

    Megadroid expert. Well… I’m not a buyer of such things definitely, but I have an opinion. This baby looks like a very average trading system for those who doesn’t know how to trade or cannot find anything better. According to reviews, it trades very seldom, weeks may pass without any trade. So, I don’t think you can get rich quick. I wouldn’t, for example, wait for half a year to make a thousand bucks… but at least the robot doesn’t drain your account, which is an achievement too for some… :)

    It is a fair price, I’d say, for such performance, some however would complain about limited to no support from sellers once you experience a drawdown.
    Also, not every MT4 Forex broker will allow you to trade with Megadroid, consider this, as well as the fact that trading results will differ from broker to broker.

    $97 is a small price to pay. If you want it, try it, but use common sense and logic, that correctly tells you this system worth almost nothing.
    Finally, those rich sellers, at least, could have hired a designer to make a website for them, for now it perfectly fits the model:
    not trusted sites
    … I wonder actually why all scam and scam-like Forex sites are so similar… As if there is one person behind all this… I’m done.

  44. I just attended a workshop done by a group of people called Traders University. They claimed to have a system that guarantees millions in the first year of use. Their sales pitch was irresistable, even to the worst critic

  45. I haven’t heard about this group before. Many salesmen before them claimed to deliver millions, but few, and more often none actually did. If you happen to have any objective updates on their system, please feel free to leave a review.

  46. hi,i used megadroid in a live account and is working for me i used a system that is call droid tactics that makes megadroid trade about 4 times a day almost everyday, i dont expect to be rich with any robot system ,but is a system like any other system made by you or by someone else. the thing is not t be greedy!!! when the robot is up $20 i take the profit thats all i want on each trade,belive me is more than the bank is giving me!!!

  47. money on a 24/7 basis? : 0

  48. I want to say thanks to the Dark Lord for the great articles. I have read them all. I’ve been researching on Forex for about 8 months and is currently demoing now. Hope I can make pips consistently in the future.

    I would like to thank you for posting your trading on demo. I tried to decipher the pattern that you mentioned, but I guess it’s kind of hard without the right indicators ,etc. Also, I wasn’t able to go back to February 2009 on the 15 minutes chart. I checked it out on the 30 minutes and up. I did however understand scaling out and in can greatly influence the outcome of the trade. I will try to use it to manage risk/reward. I will also take a look at the book “Behavior of Prices on Wall Street.” Any other recommendations are welcome.

  49. I meant to say thank tradeforex4money on the second paragraph on the comment I submitted above.

  50. Nice site here! :)

    Well guys, I code expert advisors they are successful like hell. Would I sell them? Ha ha ha! Why sharing my hard work and ideas with the crowd who makes it less economic? Think about it.

  51. Almost one year later and I last made a comment about a SURPRISE coming. The cat is out of the bag and I didn’t know about the Greece crisis. Again I managed to figure out the US dollar was going to be on another bull run and the EURO was going to tank without any news. Now if you look at my last post it was on June 26, 2009 how did I know about this so far in advance. Again nobody was talking about it everyone was talking about the US Dollar tanking and the EURO going to the moon. All the stuff I need shows in the charts first “the reason why will follow”.

    DEADLYC- I’ve read hundreds of books and most are garbage. You are looking for stuff most people don’t talk about. You won’t find this stuff on any website or ever a best seller and not for long if it manages to make it. A good example would be to start with people that predicted the 2000 crash. Some of them published books prior to the crash happening.

    Even reading through all the stuff I am still waiting for someone to post trades. You see all the guys talking but, when it’s time to put money down (even with simple paper trades) with stuff in advance everyone got quiet and couldn’t say anything but watched.

    Keep looking at the pairs involving the US dollar for positions of weakness with the dollar I already have positions. The news is currently that the EURO has hit it’s low and everything is horrible. And while it could be my system is saying buy so I’ll see.

  52. This is a intriguing and comprehensive piece of info, altough this is a little too advanced for those of us begginners in trading.
    I for one would be glad to see something on the basics everyone needs to keep in mind be it a rookie or aprofessional.

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